Once our kids turned 3, one of the big decisions for us was whether or not to keep them in daycare or move them to a 3’s program at a more education-focused preschool. We handled the decisions differently for Charlie and Olive.
C H A R L I E
Last year when Charlie turned 3, all the kids at his daycare except for Charlie and one other child went on to 3’s programs at preschools. We considered sending Charlie elsewhere too, but it just made more sense for us to keep him in the same daycare another year for a number of reasons:
- The preschool application process in New York is crazy. I spent hours researching all our local preschools and navigating the open houses, tours and applications. Many parents in our neighborhood line up at 4am for just a chance at a slot at the most popular schools that are lottery or first come first served!
- Our daycare has one mixed age class, so Charlie and Olive would be in the same class when she started. The transition for Olive would be seamless since Charlie was already there.
- It’d be much easier for us to have both kids in one place for pickup/drop off, one set of rules, one schedule, etc.
Charlie attended daycare from 21 months – 3 1/2 then went onto public pre-k.
O L I V E
Olive has been in daycare since she was 16 months old, and will be transitioning to a 2’s or 3’s program at a more education-focused preschool next year (her birthday is after the September cut-off for most preschools so she may not be eligible for a 3’s program the year she turns 3). We made the decision based on three main factors:
1) The intensity of the pre-k curriculum
Since Charlie started pre-k last month, we now know how much is expected of the kids. Olive will be about the same age as Charlie when she starts pre-k and we want to help her be prepared. With a December birthday Charlie is the youngest kid in the class, and I can see a big difference between him and the kids who were born at the beginning of the year. Most of the kids already knew how to write their own names, and some of them can color completely within the lines (a skill Charlie is very far away from mastering). Charlie also gets 5 homework assignments every Monday for that week. So Olive needs to have a good grasp of the alphabet, numbers, and general writing ability before she starts pre-k. It’s crazy to think that we have to prepare for school at such a young age now (she just turned 2), but studies have shown that the quality of education in these early years actually do have a dramatic impact.
2) Developmental delays & a broader variety of experiences
Even though Charlie is young, we haven’t worried too much about him because he’s a pretty sharp kid that’s always loved reading. But Olive was a preemie that isn’t the biggest fan of reading, and she has been a little delayed in several developmental areas. Once she started daycare at 16 months, we saw dramatic improvements. The structure, the stimulation, the other kids were all great for her, so we know that the school setting is right for her.
We’re not looking to send her an intense, academically rigorous preschool. But we are looking to send her to a larger school with more resources that can expose her to a wider variety of experiences, which has really been the key to her development. Our current daycare is very small so their resources are more limited, and the children tend to do similar things each day.
3) A more stimulating and challenging environment
We had a playdate this past weekend with the one friend (let’s call him Gary) that remained in the daycare with Charlie. Gary is now in a private pre-k program, and absolutely loves it. His mom told us that he loved his first year at the daycare because he was one of the youngest kids along with Charlie. But the other kids all went onto preschools, and Charlie and Gary were the only ones that remained, becoming the two oldest kids. In his second year, Gary started telling his mom that he didn’t want to go to school anymore, most likely because with the new younger children, he wasn’t being challenged enough or having as much fun. Even though we knew our daycare wasn’t as education-focused as other preschool 3’s programs, Charlie was so happy there and never expressed any reluctance to attend. In fact Charlie adores his daycare teacher so much, I’d say he loves her as much as he loves me and Mr. Bee!
Then earlier this year Charlie started fighting bedtime and often wouldn’t go to bed until 10:30pm at night. Until recently, we believed that it was because he was getting ready to drop his nap, and the 2+ hour nap he was getting at daycare was affecting his bedtime. But Gary’s mom told us that it was probably because Charlie wasn’t being stimulated enough. It was really a lightbulb moment because there is a dramatic difference now that Charlie is in pre-k and is challenged and stimulated each day. He says he’s tired and wants to go to bed every night at 7pm — something he never used to do!
. . . . .
We have absolutely loved our daycare because the teachers truly love the children and the children love them too. I think putting Charlie and Olive in daycare (as opposed to having a nanny) was one of the best parenting decisions we ever made, even though it was much easier when we had a nanny. The teachers have been a part of our family for the past 2+ years and they’ve taken such great care of Charlie and Olive. They provided such a nurturing environment for Charlie and Olive, which was really what they needed at the time.
But we think it’s best that Olive leave the daycare we love for a preschool program next September. I just hope that we can find a program that’s really right for Olive because she could get lost in a 3’s program that’s too challenging for her, and she could get bored in a 2’s program because she’s one of the oldest kids. We actually have to start the preschool application process right now because tours are already starting for enrollment next fall, and some application deadlines have even already passed.
It is really bittersweet to think about leaving our daycare because we do love it so much. But we have to do what’s best for Olive, and I think a larger preschool will better help her develop and thrive.
Does your little one go to a daycare or a preschool? If they’re in a daycare, will you transition them to a preschool at some point?
hostess / eggplant / 11068 posts
DD is two and is in daycare and she will remain in daycare until she starts kindergarten when she’s 4 years old. I think I need look up pre-k only because it’s quite unfamiliar to me in that I don’t know anyone in real life (in Canada) who says, “My kid is in preschool” – it’s always daycare and then kindergarten. The daycare DD is in has a curriculum, though. I should look it up. But we LOVE our daycare so so so so much that I can’t imagine pulling DD out of it!
pear / 1861 posts
She is 2 and in daycare. She’ll go to Ga Pre-K at 4, but at the daycare where she is (and where I teach Ga Pre-K.) It’s the same curriculum as in schools, but they have so many kids, there are classrooms in daycares too, which is good for me so I can stay with her til K, then move to a school with her.LOL!
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
This is really interesting to me, as I heavily researched the school system where my son was born in order to make an informed decision as to early education.
There, public kindergarten begins at age 5 and is mostly play based. It is not uncommon for a child to only begin reading at age 7. Yet, these students score consistently higher than American students when given international exams. I really wonder why that is, given how much we American parents focus on learning in the early years.
nectarine / 2054 posts
@Mrs. Bee: This is such an interesting post, thank you. DS is turning 1 in a couple weeks, and I’m afraid we’re going to have to start thinking seriously about how to go about his schooling. Do you have any recommendations for resources on how to navigate the NYC school system?
pomegranate / 3272 posts
“studies have shown that the quality of education in these early years actually do have a dramatic impact.”
This is actually very interesting to me as I had a very long conversation with a kindergarten teach in December about this. He was actually saying the opposite. He said that he thinks it’s more important for kids to have life experiences (zoos, travel, museums, etc.) when they are younger and for the parents to interact with their children more than having them be pushed to learn things like writing and reading before they enter kindergarten. He said that he has always found that kids who don’t know how to write or read once they enter kindergarten always pick it up quickly. He’ll teach them when they’re ready to learn. Obviously, this is one guy’s thoughts but it always kind of stuck with me. It’s great to hear other people’s thoughts/experiences and studies on this type of thing.
blogger / kiwi / 675 posts
I have been grappling with this myself. My daughter has a November birthday and is turning 3 very soon but won’t really start kindergarten until 2016… she’ll be an “old” 5yo and one of the oldest in the class. I am wondering if I should hold her out of Pre-k one more year and start her on the cusp of turning 4, which still leaves her in pre-k two years or if I should enroll her now. Three years just seems like such a long time to be in preschool to me……
though…I am kind of having the lightbulb moment that you had with Charlie… is she getting stimulated enough? Some days she doesn’t want to go to bed until 9:30.. and I thought it was the nap as well…..
coconut / 8299 posts
We transitioned my son to preschool right when he turned 3 and it was the best decision we made for him. We could right away that his new school was stimulating him and really engaging all of his senses. We actually saw a really dramatic difference once he started his preschool!
admin / watermelon / 14210 posts
@looch: maybe only certain parts of the us (like ny) are this intense about education? i don’t really know about international test scores so i can’t really speak to that.
@Beehive: insideschools.org is where you can research every new york public school.
@MUI831: i do believe that experiences have a HUGE impact, especially after our recent 5 week trip. we try to jam pack as many new experiences as possible every weekend now.
at the same time, a lot is expected of kids at the kindergarten level these days and being a little bit behind early on can compound each year.
@banana: was that the first time he was ever in a school setting?
blogger / persimmon / 1398 posts
This is such a well thought out post! (And you know I love all things school-related.) We kept Mini Michelangelo in daycare all through his preschool years. They had a preschool track there, and I’d argue he learned more than his “public pre-school” counterparts here. It was the perfect mix *for him* … which is key. As you said above, it’s about finding the right answer for each child. I’m not so sure that we will do the same thing with Son #2… he may be Pre-K all the way!
GOLD / wonderful coffee bean / 18478 posts
I saw a huge leap going from daycare to preschool. Within two months of starting preschool, she could write her name and other letters. There was a summer break and now school has been in session for a month and she’s now writing in sentences at 3.5! She wouldn’t be at this level if she was still in daycare, even though they do have a preschool program. Now I don’t know if it’s really necessary for her to be writing at this age, but I can’t complain, right?
blogger / eggplant / 11551 posts
“Studies have shown that the quality of education in these early years actually do have a dramatic impact.” – I don’t doubt it, but can you link me to the studies?
Your comment about Charlie being understimulated really struck a chord with me. Noelle is going down later and later, and she is in a play-based daycare/preschool. She is a January baby so one of the older ones too, and I feel like she’s pretty advanced for her age… so I wonder if we need to find a place that’s more challenging for her.
cherry / 224 posts
I have been in the field of early childhood education and child development for many years, during that time my experience range from being a former teacher (worked with infant through pre-k) and as an administrator. The preschools now have changed a lot, from play-base to academic focus curriculum.
With my knowledge and experience in this field, there is no doubt that I would send my son to preschool early (just two years) because of the rigorous standards expected of him at the end of kindergarten.
Here are my personal reasons for having him be in preschool:
There is a big teacher-ratio shift in preschool to kindergarten, my child will go from possibly having 3 or more teachers/aides in his preschool class to having 1 or 2 kindergarten teachers to help him learn. The class size will be larger in kindergarten, so my son will not get as much individual attention/help from the kindergarten teachers as he has had in preschool. This can be hard on my child if he is already behind in writing, reading, math, etc…
Also, the expectations are different for preschool and kindergarten; I like to look at preschool as a place for my son to learn his base skills where these skills can prepare him for learning higher skills in kindergarten.
California has preschool standards called the preschool learning foundations that parents can look up to see what is expected of their child when it comes to specific subject matter. This foundation coordinates with the common core standards (primary/secondary school standards K-12) as it provides the framework for skills to be built on. Not all states have gotten on board with having common core as a standard but most states over 40ish are using common core, you might want to look into this if you do not know about it. Check your state’s website on education standards.
Below are links to California preschool learning foundations and common core standards.
http://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/cd/re/psfoundations.asp
http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/cc/index.asp
In my observation, a child benefits from being in preschool for two years, where specific skills can be obtained during that time and more attention given from a teacher to help meet the child’s needs in preparation for kindergarten are better met. The first year of preschool will help a child develop his/her social and emotional skills (enter play, engage with other children, work on turn-taking/waiting skills, impulse control –able to attend/focus) and the second year will help the child learn the cognitive skills/academics (problem solving, critical thinking, writing name, identifying letters of the alphabet, identifying number print, learn about book concepts, letter sounds, etc…).
In the past, I have had students who began preschool at a young age where they have been in the same classroom for 3 years with the same teacher, these students will and do get bored because they have been there and done all of that. If you your child will be in this situation, I would suggest s/he be moved to another classroom with a different teacher or put your child in a different program entirely. Valid points are made about not being challenge enough and not having peers be in sync cognitively/social-emotionally which does happen if your child is in preschool too long.
grapefruit / 4049 posts
My DD is in kindergarten and I worry that she’s a bit behind in a few things, but it doesn’t make me worried too, too much. A majority of the kids in her class did pre-K at her current school, which is highly academic, while she came from a different pre-K that wasn’t as rigorous.
I know she will catch up. It’s not about comparing her to others. Already in one month at this new school, she is doing awesome. I don’t think being behind in some things necessarily becomes a compounding issue. It just lets you know what you have to focus on a bit more.
My 2nd DD probably won’t even go to preschool! We’ll likely just start her in private pre-K right after she turns 4. I definitely think I can teach her the basics at home. She already learns so much these days from her sister. She is exposed to a lot more at an earlier age.
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
Just in case anyone is interested in reading about how the US ranks in the world education systems:
http://www.oecd.org/pisa/aboutpisa/
I think there’s just so much more to it than the way we do it in the US.
admin / watermelon / 14210 posts
@Andrea: writing sentences?! wow!
@Mrs. High Heels: it was in a book mr. bee read about childhood development and the importance of a good kindergarten/first grade (he will find it for you). my good friend’s son just started a gifted and talented kindergarten, and she tells me that it is crazy how challenging it is!
@VanillaBean: thanks for chiming in! that was really interesting.
@SAHM0811: before olive was born i assumed that she would be so much sharper than charlie esp because she was a girl. but she ended up being delayed so we have to work a little extra hard with her, and i do worry about her more than i do charlie!
coconut / 8299 posts
@Mrs. Bee: Yes, that was the first time he was in a school setting. He was in a home-based daycare before that. I think he was getting really bored and unmotivated at the daycare. Putting him in a preschool environment was the best thing for him.
For us, the main thing we want him to learn before entering Kindergarten is how to focus and attend to tasks. I think this is such a crucial skill to acquire before entering an academic setting. At home, we don’t work on letters or numbers or writing. He’ll learn all of that in school. We work on paying attention, focusing, and completing tasks. It’s hard and he pushes back a lot (SIGHHH) but I’m hopeful that it’ll pay off at the end.
honeydew / 7488 posts
Our situation is different since our day care was attached to a Montessori school and they started teaching “work” cycles in the toddler room. It feels like they have been in the pre-school environment for a long time! My DD is in Montessori Kinder this year. I’m having the opposite issue with her. She is so stimulated during the day that she doesn’t know what to do with herself when she gets home.. she doesn’t really know how to have down time (other than TV, which we have pretty much stopped watching recently). She always asks me “Mama, what can I DO?” Plus she doesn’t get homework. I’m not worried though since next year in Public first grade she will have lots of assignments after school to fill up her time.
admin / wonderful grape / 20724 posts
< < “Studies have shown that the quality of education in these early years actually do have a dramatic impact.” – I don’t doubt it, but can you link me to the studies? >>
@Mrs. High Heels: Sure! One of the more cited studies is the HighScope Perry Preschool Project, where 58 poor and high-risk three-and-four-year-olds went to pre-K over four years (and a control group of 65 kids did not). Some findings for the group that went to high-quality pre-K:
* When they followed up at age 27, they had a 44% higher high school graduation rate (66% vs. 45%)
* At age 25, they had half as many teen pregnancies on average (0.6 pregnancies/woman vs. 1.2 pregnancies/woman
* At age 40, they were 46% less likely to have served time in jail or prison (28% vs. 52%)
* At age 40, the kids that went to pre-K had a 42% higher median monthly income ($1,856 vs. $1,308)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HighScope
Other efforts started even earlier… for the Abecedarian Early Intervention project, the average kid was 4.4 months old:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abecedarian_Early_Intervention_Project
One thing to note is that the kids in these studies were poor and often considered at-risk. Those were also the type of students covered in David Kirp’s “Improbable Scholars: The Rebirth of a Great American School System and a STrategy for America’s Schools”… it talks a lot about how the school system he writes about (Union City, New Jersey) invests in early education and really focuses on providing a strong base for students in the first few years (into 2nd and 3rd grade). Apparently, nearly 90% of high school students are graduating and 60% of them are going to college. A lot of them were from immigrant families where the kids didn’t speak English, and the parents weren’t available to help out a lot… so that really impressed me!
Here’s a link to
the book and here’s an article on it if you’re interested!
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/10/opinion/sunday/the-secret-to-fixing-bad-schools.html?pagewanted=all
The key is for the program to be considered “high quality early education”… not all pre-k is considered equal for the purposes of these studies.
grapefruit / 4049 posts
@Mrs. Bee: aww, I know, people assume girls are brighter and quicker in development, but I didn’t find that with my first girl at all. She is about 6 months delayed in speech and the differences were really apparent when she was younger. It affected her in so many ways and still does, to this day, especially now in literacy. She’s caught up with a lot of things, but we are still having to work on some things that just came easier for her peers. It’s tough, but I do love what improvements I’ve been seeing due to school!!
Every child is different. It definitely sounds like Olive will benefit much more from preschool vs daycare. That’s great you guys are so proactive