Earlier this week we had an upsetting experience taking Little Piñata out to dinner. Mr. Piñata was out of town for work for the week, so my parents were kind enough to take me and Little P to a local family friendly cafe/restaurant for dinner.
We don’t take Little Piñata out to restaurants very often, mostly because it’s a big hassle. With his egg allergy we have to pack his own food. Not to mention, he’s also a VERY active 16.5 month old! So, it tends to be a lot of work. If the restaurant is slow, one of us usually has to take him out for a walk at least once during dinner because that’s a long time for him to sit in one place. But I definitely like going out to eat, so I didn’t want to pass up the opportunity to go out with my parents and the little buddy.
He did great when we first got there, coloring on the paper tablecloth, chatting with us and eating his sandwich. It took a while for our food to come, so my dad took Little P outside to run around for about 10 minutes so he wouldn’t get too antsy. While they were gone our food arrived and we started asking the server what had egg and what didn’t. We like to be able to give him several bites from what’s on our plates so we can share with him. Our usual go-to items are french fries and side vegetables. However, at this place, even the french fries were dipped in egg! So, asparagus was the only option to give him.
When Little Piñata came back in with my dad and sat down in his high chair, he immediately reached for the french fries. They are definitely a treat for him, so I don’t blame him. But, we told him no because they would hurt his belly (not that he would understand, but we wanted to be calm about the whole thing), and he started screaming. It was very embarrassing. Plus, we felt so bad for him to not get to try what we had. We quickly tried to give him his fruit/veggie pouch, some of the asparagus, and a bite of the sandwich I had brought for him, but he was pretty upset and refused it all. After about one minute of me frantically trying to calm him down, I put him in my lap to try something distract him when the lady at the table behind us turned around and said, “Do you mind taking him outside so we can enjoy our dinner?”
As if we weren’t embarrassed enough, my dad very kindly took him outside while I asked the waitress for a box for my food so that I could head home with Little P. But as I was leaving, my mortification turned to anger. My dad said he was tempted to ask her if she was used to always getting her way. I wanted to tell her that I hoped that one day her kid had colic (yikes! not my best side I know), but neither one of us would actually say anything like that in a million years. We were polite and quickly left. (I will add that while we were getting in the car, less than 5 minutes later, the couple was already leaving the restaurant!)
Since then I have wondered if maybe she had personal reasons for finding a baby’s cry to be so upsetting after one minute. Maybe she’s dealing with infertility. Maybe she had a rough day at work. Or maybe she and her husband were in a fight. Who knows? And if so, I do feel bad for her and I also totally understand why anyone in the restaurant (with or without issues about babies) would be annoyed or frustrated with a crying baby. Of course no one WANTS to have a crying toddler next to them! I certainly don’t! But, at the same time I still thought it wasn’t ok for her to ask us to leave so quickly and abruptly, without giving us a chance to get him to calm down.
I looked online and saw there are other examples of families with young children getting kicked out or being refused service at restaurants for various reasons. We were just asked to leave by another customer, but I can’t imagine the management talking to the people in these situations!
Breastfeeding Mom asked to Nurse in Applebee’s Bathroom
Authorities Called on Family in Applebee’s
A Family Refused Service cue to a Baby Stroller
And by reading some of the comments, it appears that many people think it’s appropriate to refuse service to families that are disturbing them (even by quiet breastfeeding). This disappoints me because it indicates that our culture finds children annoying and inconvenient. Of course, I think there are boundaries and that parents should be considerate of others in public. However, I also think that as a culture we should be more inviting and kind to children in public. I know that when I’m in public and I see a child throwing a tantrum, my first instinct is to feel bad for the parents, not to ask them to leave!
For now we have learned a few things about taking Little Piñata out to a restaurant. It had been 2 months since we had taken him out to a restaurant, and it may be even longer now with this recent incident! But, I’ll be more prepared next time.
1. Be quick about ordering. Don’t think about it too long as this just prolongs the time Little P will have to sit still.
2. Ask the server before ordering what doesn’t have eggs to be sure all of our food won’t be “off limits” to him!
3. ALWAYS bring a special snack, like puffs, so that he will have a special treat to munch on that we don’t ever have at home. Hopefully this will be distracting enough.
4. Request to be seated near other families and away from couples. This one will be out of our control, but it couldn’t hurt to make this request.
So, what do you all think? Have you been in a similar situation and been asked to leave a public place due to a loud child? Do you think children should be kept at home if they can’t have model behavior? Where’s the line for you?
cherry / 220 posts
If you were somewhere with paper tablecloths, then it wasn’t a fancy restaurant, and a few minutes of a kid crying is par for the course. Of course it would be inappropriate to let your kid fuss and bother other diners for an extended period of time, but under a minute? Come on. It’s kind of you to make excuses for that woman, but maybe she was just an intolerant b****. Too many people think the world should revolve around them.
persimmon / 1026 posts
That’s just rude of her to ask you to take him outside. She has to expect that by choosing to eat at a family friendly restaurant, then young children will be there and there’s going to be noise and a tantrum at some point. If they wanted a quiet night out, they should have chosen a different establishment meant more for adults only.
We have never been asked to leave, but I have noticed dirty looks shot our way when LO has gotten antsy and starts making louder noises (but not crying or screaming). We’ve been lucky that he’s never thrown a full on tantrum at a restaurant but I feel like older adults forget what it was like to have young children. At 16 months, a toddler does not understand “sshhhhh”!
blogger / pomelo / 5361 posts
I would have been livid, but like you, I would not have said anything. Other than in my head, that is, in which I would have been slinging a variety of snarky comments. Sorry that happened!
hostess / wonderful persimmon / 25556 posts
That is so tough. I too have a 16 month old and know how it is. I can’t imagine having a 16 month old who I have to refuse food to at a restaurant!! I am so sorry you had to go through that. Toddlers just can’t understand the word no yet.
I don’t like that the lady decided she needed to say something so quickly. You were obviously doing the best thing possible at that point, trying to calm him down, pulling him into your lap. I don’t know what I would have done in that situation and I’m sorry your dinner was ruined.
@littlecasita1122: I’ve found I make very little eye-contact with other people when I’m in public with my kiddo now, I’m afraid of the dirty looks! Ha!!
blogger / pomelo / 5400 posts
Ugh, I feel you — we’ve been going through a little bit of a difficult streak with restaurants lately. But one minute when you were obviously trying to calm him down seems a bit heavy-handed to me. Especially if it was a family establishment. Frankly, I probably would have told her that I would happily take him out if he hasn’t calmed down in a more reasonable time period.
I will say that I don’t think there’s any comparison between this and breastfeeding, though. Yeah, people can be legitimately bothered by crying, and they’re forced to listen. As for breastfeeding, no one is forcing anyone to stare at boobs. If that’s the case, that’s their issue. Not the mom’s. Kiddo has to eat.
GOLD / pineapple / 12662 posts
I hate that this happened to you. There is only so much you can do! And what works today does not work tomorrow . . . *augh*
Before I had LO, I once made a comment to a mother about her 2 children who ran around the restaurant screaming for over 15 minutes while she did nothing. Literally, nothing. (She sat at her table and chatted with another child, and was on her phone a good bit.) If she had done ANYTHING to try to control the situation, my tolerance would have gone up 1,000 fold. (She didn’t even say X, Y come here and sit down, or X, Y keep it down – nothing!) I also shared my sentiments with the restaurant manager (it was a pretty nice restaurant.)
GOLD / squash / 13576 posts
That is rough. I try to take LO to mexican restaurants, that are loud, so if LO does have a tempertantrum no one can hear.
guest
I will go against the tide of popular opinion here to say that I think the fault was with you more than the woman behind you. The careful planning that you put into your restaurant trips seems to imply that you recognize the possibility (if not probability, given toddlers) of such a disturbance occurring. Why risk it? I have a toddler and we don’t go out to dine, for precisely this reason. Eating out is a luxury and it does not seem fair for my child to disrupt the “luxurious” experience of other people. If you are going to such lengths to prevent this from happening, why not take the most surefire step of getting take out, eating on the patio, going at an uncrowded hour, etc.? I don’t doubt that your son’s crying diminished the experience of your fellow diner and that does not really seem fair.
pomelo / 5220 posts
Sheesh. I think saying something after 1 minute is a bit ridiculous, you didn’t even have a chance to resolve the situation!
blogger / kiwi / 675 posts
So sad. I know how you feel, we took our very active, then 10mo old out one night for dinner and an older woman snarled at me the whole dinner and my child wasn’t even crying!! She was talking and moving but no major episode or anything. I truly believe some people do not understand their own humanity. Something I read recently said even if you don’t like/want children, this generation of children will some day be serving you and even providing your care as you age! Novel thought.
I would have done what you would have done but it would have been hard to bite my tongue. However rude crying is, making a comment like what she said to you is even more rude.
We’ve had a few dinners of take turns with our toddler outside as well. You are a wonderful person, it’s a shame she didn’t have a moment to notice that.
clementine / 948 posts
I’m sure it is because I don’t actually have my LO yet, but I don’t intend to take babies/toddlers out to dinner – I plan to hire babysitters. In my part of the city, I never see kids out for dinner (brunch sometimes, yes).
But I wouldn’t say anything to a parent with fussing kids (ever really)- that woman was out of line. If it had lasted 5+ minutes, then maybe a polite, “do you mind stepping outside” would be reasonable.
pear / 1946 posts
DD can be a handful when we’re out to dinner too. I usually make sure to bring several toys and treats to keep her busy, order her foot right away, and take her outside at least 1-2 times to let her run around. But I also figure that if you’re going to a family restaurant at 6pm, you’ve got to expect that some kids are going to be there. And most toddlers don’t know how to sit and be quiet for an hour. Sure, nobody likes sitting next to a fussy kid, but if you’re actively trying to calm them and it’s only been a minute or so, the lady should’ve kept her mouth shut.
pear / 1946 posts
One more thought….even though it’s difficult, I think it’s good to take LOs out to restaurants. They need to learn to be comfortable in the environment and how to behave well. Just go for early dinners to avoid the more crowded times.
pomegranate / 3779 posts
Wow, that woman was really impatient – it’s one thing if the parents let it go on for a while and don’t do anything about it, but you should at least give the parents a chance to calm their child.
I would like to point out that there is a lot more to the story on the second link than that article points out. I live near there and some of the other news outlets did a more in depth stories. There was a lot of conflicting accounts, but almost everyone agreed that the kids had done a lot more than just “wander off” from the table.
olive / 64 posts
@chitownro where do u live? We have been taking our 17mo son to restaurants since he was a few months old. Always to family friendly places at family friendly dinner times. You have to continue doing things you enjoy. We love to eat out 1-2x a week. Why get a babysitter to go to the diner at 6:00 on a Wednesday?
@Mrs Piñata that woman was a heartless B*#%# !!!!!! Karma karma karma!!! I’m so sorry that happened to you. And how thoughtful of u to even consider she might have had a bad day. Maybe this will make you feel better:
About 2 months ago we were eating at a local diner for dinner. Henry had a little cold and he has an extremely sensitive gag reflex. Well, he gagged on some mashed potatoes and vomited (not a ton but enough) on the table!!!OMG I was embarrassed! We started cleaning it and my husband asked for more napkins. When the waitress unknowlying came back with napkins she saw it, started to gag and ran to the bathroom! Another waitress helped us,we finished up and left a REALLY nice tip. I’m so happy my husband is laid back and reasonable. He convinced me it wasn’t a big deal and we should still eat there sometimes. Now the staff recognize us and lovingly call Henry, Ralph lol. So not everyone is heartless. Please still go out to dinner sometimes and enjoy yourself. There are a lot of good people out there who might even help you next time
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
Ugh this grosses me out. People are so intolerant and our culture is increasingly so unfriendly to children. It makes me sad. It also makes me want to take my kid out more often to expose him to culture and to expose others to kids!
@ChitownRo: it isn’t always an option. We got used to taking scribble out when he was only two weeks old. He had some health issues that routinely required us to drive him to a hospital 2 hrs away, 3 hrs if you include traffic. I guess we could have packed a lunch but honestly at that point packing lunch was the last thing on my mind. Parents are people too and they need to be able to take advantage of the convenience of restaurants without judgement.
pomelo / 5257 posts
I’m sorry she said something so quickly
It’s one thing if your baby is crying constantly and you’re just eating your meal and ignoring it, but you deserve some time to get it together and hopefully calm the baby down! The only time I’ve said something to a parent in a restaurant is when they had their kid playing with an iPhone with the sound on. I think that’s just rude to everyone else and easily avoidable. But it’s not like it’s always easy to quiet a crying baby!
clementine / 948 posts
@Theresa: I live in Chicago. But, to be fair, I likely go out to dinner later than LOs’ bedtimes (8 or 9pm are normal reservation times). So maybe there are littles out around 5 or 6p
pomegranate / 3401 posts
How rude!!! Honestly there are times when we go out to restaurants and it’s ADULTS who are loud and obnoxious and I don’t tell them to please go outside so I can enjoy my dinner in peace.
(Just last night…..at a nice restaurant with cloth napkins and a group of elderly ladies at the next table literally screeching at each other at the tops of their lungs…….maybe they forgot their hearing aids? I dunno….
)
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@ChitownRo: I will concede I rarely choose to take LO out past 7PM. It would be miserable for both of us so I just don’t do it. On vacation our parents wanted to go to some snazzy restaurants and I was anxious. Everything worked out but it was a lot of work for me. I barely tasted my dinner!
blogger / eggplant / 11551 posts
I can’t believe she didn’t even wait one minute before saying something (and in SUCH a rude way too!). I think our culture is becoming more and more selfish, and people don’t care who’s toes they step on anymore. It sucks that it’s so hard to find compassion anywhere anymore, I’m sorry you experienced this!!
Like you, I think I would’ve been so caught off guard and embarrassed that I would’ve left (I tend to get paralyzed and non-confrontational in situations like this), but I would’ve wished I spoke up to the woman later on.
grapefruit / 4110 posts
Kids have to learn how to behave at a restaurant. My son is 2 years old and he is amazing in a restaurant only because we have taken him since he was 4 weeks old. Our 4 week old was the worst ever. He screamed the whole time (we didn’t know about his allergies yet). We took turns eating because of it.
pomegranate / 3314 posts
I think the way that the woman behaved was rude and she certainly could have handled it better. However, I guess I kind of sort of get where she’s coming from? Our daughter is going through a major busy/tantrum-throwing phase and for the time being I have just accepted that we either won’t be going out to restaurants or we will have to be prepared to leave if her behavior is disruptive.
blogger / pear / 1563 posts
@stine_ciro: Yeah, I figured there was more to the story (there usually is). I figured they must have been causing QUITE a scene if they called the police! I wonder if that was still a little extreme? I still completely think kids need to learn manners for public situations, which is why we don’t want to avoid restaurants entirely while Little P is growing up. Although recently thee Ben about 2 months in between each trip.
blogger / pear / 1563 posts
@Theresa: oh no! Your poor little guy! That’s really sweet of the restaurant staff to help you out!
honeydew / 7444 posts
I’ve learned to always bring food, or something that will distract her until the food gets there. I also try to go to restaurants where i know the service will be quick, and go at times where it isn’t too busy.
I would most likely have given that woman a piece of my mind. That was super rude, and she should’ve seen that you were trying.
pomelo / 5093 posts
I guess I’ll be another dissenting voice and say that I agree with the woman. I don’t really think that crying in a restaurant is ok – I would personally have removed my toddler as soon as she started crying.
cherry / 205 posts
We have been taking our 16 month old to restaurants since she was 1 month. However, we ALWAYS carefully plan our day at a restaurant. We take her to loud restaurants, places where there is a max wait time of 30 mins, during our wait time we let her run around, we always order quickly after being seated, we never sit her in the high chair until food arrives, etc… She has thrown minor tantrums but we’ve left soon after and as today we have never been forced to leave from a restaurant. I just think we’ve been lucky to time it all at appropriate times
wonderful pear / 26210 posts
I think it is a classic case of a few bad apples ruining it for the bunch, not that you are the bad apple, Mrs. Piñata. Sometimes out prior experiences color our current state.
grapefruit / 4671 posts
I’m sorry this happened to you @Mrs. Pinata: , that was titally uncalled for.
I have been tyakind my 16 month old DD to restaurants since she was born. I live in NYC and I take her to all kinds of places, fancy, laid back, whatever. I believe she needs to to learn how to deal with them living in the city. If someone told her she couldn’t have the french fries she would probably flip!!!
blogger / pear / 1964 posts
Sorry that happened!! Sounds like you’ve got a good plan in place for next time.
The Trikester can be a pain at restaurants, but we love to eat out. We’ll try to sit outside or at tables in the bar area where we think a little more noise is acceptable. We typically throw an extra $5 on the tip if the baby’s had a particularly messy meal and have offered to buy dessert for people sitting near us if he’s extra noisy and we feel the need to “apologize” (though they always decline and and say he was no problem).
blogger / persimmon / 1398 posts
Oh, I’m so sorry!!! I can’t believe how rude she was. I wonder what happened to her that she had to act like that?
We go out to eat at least a couple of times a month, and have since Mini came home to us. It hasn’t always been pretty, but we are proud of how he handles himself at a restaurant now. In the “ugly” days, we used lots of distractions, special snacks, and even the phone with favorite videos loaded up. (We still use the phone a lot.) We figure it’s a treat to the adults to eat out… we were making it special for him too…. in toddler ways! Your solutions sound perfect.
GOLD / apricot / 341 posts
What an upsetting experience! We live in Stockholm, Sweden and people here seem to feel pretty un-shy about commenting on children, whether or not they are actually behaving badly. I have mostly experienced comments about my stroller being a nuisance (we live right in the city and we use our stroller for everything). There are so many children in this city that I really wish people were kinder about families just trying to get through their day. We used to live in Atlanta, GA and I found people there to be so so so much nicer about kids. Don’t let it stop you from going out though – like you say, there could be a million reasons why that lady was in a bad mood that day, and maybe she just happened to take it out on you…
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@sarac: I have to ask, why? I get it that people don’t want their dinners interrupted by children, but I mean, it is one meal right? The woman wasn’t being proposed to or anything? I guess I don’t see the problem, but we usually limit our dinners out to the mexican place or the pizza joint, where it is always pretty loud anyway, filled with teens and large groups. My kid could have a tantrum and few would notice. I would take him outside as a method of punishment and action/consequence training but that wouldn’t solely be for the benefit of the other customers.
The only time I see it as a problem is when a parent responds inappropriately, either by ignoring completely or (worse) slapping. I made some remarks under my breath to a parent who was repeatedly slapping her child because she wouldn’t sit still enough to try on a shirt at Walmart.
I guess it is because I live in a rural area. I am far more likely to see people be aggressive toward their child in public than permissive. I figure, if they are working to correct the problem constuctively, I have no issue with them.
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@Mini Piccolini: lol! I live on the rural outskirts of metro ATL and yes, you are right! Kids rule this area! And few restaurants here are really upscale, even if they are marketed as such. This used to annoy me because if I were going out on date night and ended up at a place where everyone was wearing jeans it diminished my experience. But now I appreciate it!
pomelo / 5093 posts
@Mrs. Sketchbook: I suppose I just consider it rude, honestly. When other people are paying to have a nice dining experience, I don’t want to ruin it with my crying child. I certainly hated hearing crying children in restaurants before I had them, and I haven’t forgotten that feeling just because I have one now. I don’t want to impose my child’s learning experience on people who just want to have a fun meal.
I recognize that we’re all doing our best, but you have to admit, the sound of someone else’s child crying isn’t a nice one. I would hope that people would cut you slack when you’re making an initial, genuine effort. We all recognize that parenting is hard, and that we’re all doing our best, and that we need to give each other a break. But I think that asking the world in general to hang out through a crying child in a restaurant is too much to ask.
I’ll make one quick effort to distract mine, and then it’s to the bathroom we go. We do a lot of walking around restaurants for this reason, and we go out a lot. Something like an airplane, where you just have no other option, is different. Or a Chuckie Cheese, where they exist to serve very young children. But a place where people have gone to have a nice, relaxing meal? I just don’t think it’s kosher.
blogger / pear / 1563 posts
I think it’s interesting I just wrote this post and then last night Mr. P and I went to the ballet and sat in between 2 children who were quite distracting! The tween sitting by Mr. P was loudly sucking on a lollipop for the entire first Act and the 3 year old sitting by me talked through a lot of the ballet too.
In my opinion, our $50 per seat tickets were definitely more of a luxury than going out to dinner. But, we never said anything because we understood that “Peter Pan” is a child-friendly ballet and we also didn’t want to be rude, but it would have been nice if those parents would have had their children be quieter.
GOLD / nectarine / 2884 posts
@sarac: it is funny you mention airplanes! Because, as you say, that’s a place where you have no choice but to try to do damage control. But then again some people would simply say don’t travel with kids ! That solves the flying tantrum problem lol! I guess that is why I find intolerance of kids so abrasive… it so frequently borders on people judging parents for taking their kids out of the house! Parents are people too! But I get what you are saying. In all honesty mine hasn’t had a tantrum yet so I don’t have experience yet to know exactly how I would respond . Last weekend we took him to Cracker Barrel (yes upscale I know don’t be jealous) and he got excited and squealed three times….loudly! I didn’t know what to do because he wasn’t upset and how do you punish a 14 month old for being excited? But it was embarrassing! I grew up with three siblings under under 2 when I was 12 so noise doesn’t bother me but I refuse to leave a mess of crumbs at the table for the server to have to clean up.
pomegranate / 3053 posts
That’s terrible. I’m sorry you had such a bad experience. You took it well but I completely understand why you would be fuming afterwards.
My experience about someone saying something was actually on an airplane in first class and it wasn’t an adult. It was the teenage boy who traded seats with his dad (who probably didn’t want to sit beside someone with a 10-month-old) and my oldest just didn’t want to sleep and he kept playing his musical toy and then all of a sudden the teenage boy pops up from his sleep and said, “what’s that noise???” in an annoyed way. I told him what it was and turned it off. I guess I was lucky he wasn’t screaming like he was on a different flight during that trip. The elderly man sitting beside me seemed annoyed but he didn’t say anything. I guess he understood or just didn’t know what to say to me. :\
pomelo / 5093 posts
@Mrs. Sketchbook: Yeah, I think that flying is just an entirely different story. You do your best, and that’s literally all that you can do. Not traveling with children, and missing out on family memories is just not a choice, imho. If it disturbs people’s flights, that is really unfortunate, but not fixable.
That’s why I think it’s so different than a restaurant, in my opinion – no one HAS to go out to eat. We can just pick up our children and take them for a walk if they need a break. The squealing – I have no idea either! My daughter does it too. We just walk and walk around when she doesn’t feel like sitting.